Curse

Six String Samurai · Sep 09, 2005, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

But... It's mending!! ;_;

Self-Reliant should be something you know, more useful...

Of all the skills in the skill lines, Mending is right up there with Mind Wrack and Wastrel's Worry [after reading and looking at the numbers...]

Hall of Shame Skills

I'd put mending up there as being one of if not THE worst skill in the game. It's like the Cleave vs. Eviscerate debate.

Are you saying there is something wrong with wastrals worry and mind wrack? Heh...okay that's a whole differnet subject, I'll stick with just mending for now.

Why mending is good. Passive maintable, you cast it and you now have 3 pip's of life regen at a respectable amount of attribute points with the loss of one pip of regen on a mostly adrenaline skill bar. It is put up before you even enter combat and it has no downside to it other then it can be removed. Would you prefer a war/mo takes healing hands instead? Or shielding hands? It's constant, it's realiable, it's a solid guranteed number, and more importantly it allows you to keep moving and attacking without stopping to cast it in the middle of combat when 1 second is the difference between you getting off that running critical on the monk, and him getting healing touch off. Yes you may not be targeted first as a warrior, but if done properly the rest of your team can support and force them TO target the warrior by kiting the enemy properly. Let the paladin be the pillar and pin down 2 or 3 people trying to kill him while you drag off their one dumb over fanatical warrior, snare him and pip degen him to death.

By the way. Eviscerate good for spike, cleave good for constant.

Schorny · Sep 09, 2005, 04:46 PM // 16:46

you win in random arena most of the time because
*) the other team is really bad
*) fast res

so, of course you can get 10-12 wins in random arena, that is not too hard. All you need is a decent team. You can win many matches by dumb tricks like Shield of Judgement, Symbol of Wrath and Fragility Spikes are also great there.

But if you want a real winning series you have to play team arena.

Morello · Sep 09, 2005, 05:39 PM // 17:39

If the intent is to "go easy" on new players in arena, your intentions might be good, but the end result is a disservice to newbies.

Playing a dumbed-down game versus new players will not teach them anything in GW, as you cannot set up practice sessions to allow them to try things out. In the end, trial and error will be the best teacher of all.

Be merciless on opponents, but if they have the smarts to ask you something in a tell later or you have a new player on your team you can coach, help out. You're only creating a larger field of people to play with this way, which benefits everyone.

UberRusty · Sep 09, 2005, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Quote:

Dont sweat it guys. Some jerks take their gaming too seriously and just have no clue how to help others instead of hurling insults. I guess that just comes from doing nothing but sitting in front of their computers all day with no real social interaction.

/agree

Yesterday, I helped a beginner guild win a few guild battles. I was surprised at their goodness.

Anyway, back on topic.

I know this is going to turn into a "Mending sucks/does not" thread in a few more posts (unless it's closed), so for the books, Mending is a skill. Not Microsoft. It gives 6hp per second, and having a W/Mo cast it on a weaker armored character is not THAT bad an idea. (just for the sake of doing something with their energy, I'm sure someone can argue there are better things to do with energy)

I Farm Sigils · Sep 09, 2005, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by UberRusty

/agree

Yesterday, I helped a beginner guild win a few guild battles. I was surprised at their goodness.

Anyway, back on topic.

I know this is going to turn into a "Mending sucks/does not" thread in a few more posts (unless it's closed), so for the books, Mending is a skill. Not Microsoft. It gives 6hp per second, and having a W/Mo cast it on a weaker armored character is not THAT bad an idea. (just for the sake of doing something with their energy, I'm sure someone can argue there are better things to do with energy)

Double Succor FTW.

entropy · Sep 09, 2005, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Six String Samurai

first off...it's random arena. Build's meant to be self reliant arent such a crazy concept when entering into that craziness of random.

While you may see it as you should recieve the mending on your armor 60 character, because your awesome and he is "noob", keep in mind that his 80-85 (95-100 vs physical) armor in conjunction with 3 pip's of regen will probably keep him alive long enough to cast res sig on you when you die.

While Strength of Honor will increase his melee damage it will not increase his survivability, which is every bit as important in random arena. If he really wanted to increase his damage go with a war/ele and use a conjure instead of SoH.

1. healing breeze is 10x better than mending. witha 1 sec cast time it won't be interupted most likely.
2. Survivabilty doesn't mean anything in comp. If they are targeting the warrior you will most likely be the last one alive. Sure get that res sig off great now u got 2 people. sword warriors don't do much dmg its just that. Good monks can ignore them.
3. its not hard to get the 10 energy to cast healing breeze. Zealous hilt hint hint. :
4. The key thing is rezzing. If you have more rezzes over 50% of the time you will automatically win.
When i play an axe warrior in comp I am able to take down 2 people ususally and yet we still lose the fact is they rezed their monk and other people. I've killed a monk 3 times and yet I've still lost.

#5 if you really believe that the mending will be enough for you to get off your rez sig(if you have one) great have fun

smurfhunter · Sep 09, 2005, 10:04 PM // 22:04

wow...

what does everyone have against mending?! it gives you 3 pips of hp, and lowers you to 1 pip of energy (on a warrior). someone said zealous + healing breeze. umm hello thats exactly the same thing, and its not as sustainable as mending but gives you more regen when you do have it up.

cast mending on a weaker target? ummmm wtf? is it just me or is that like grade a dumb? a soft target will take *much* more damage than a tank, and will fall like a rock if not defended in some way. mending will do all of nothing to a soft target.

otoh, a tank has high defense. they do *not* take as much damage, so mending actually has some effect, although admitedly kinda small.

warriors have nothing to do with their energy? ...? in TA or CA frenzy is a big no no, you wont last 10 seconds which leaves you with TF, which is 10 energy. sprint, is 5 energy. if you plan on using seriously any 5 energy warrior attack thats spammable you will run out of energy really fast. zealous wont do you anything if you get blinded/blocked. alot of stances need energy. i mean cmon have you guys ever played a warrior?

havent you ever come across that last tank in some fights, this sword guy who just sits there attacking and doing like no damage but being an asshole with healing/stances? i mean they use mending, and if you cant debuff dont expect to kill him in 10 seconds.

really mending is only garbage in tombs. if i see someone use it there its cause to start rofling. but in TA or CA (more CA) its really not *that* bad.

and actually a surviving tanker can most probably take out a mesmer or a necro (someone soft with little healing). theyre not totally useless. now granted i wouldnt use any of this myself, but that doesnt mean its total crap.

i hate those retarded overarching statements that some wiseguy made up and thinks it applies to everything. sheesh stop being so immature about these skills... its just a skill like any other, if used appropriately it can be usefull and if used innapropriately will do nothing but drain your energy.

>.<

Effigy · Sep 09, 2005, 11:03 PM // 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

what does everyone have against mending?! it gives you 3 pips of hp, and lowers you to 1 pip of energy (on a warrior). someone said zealous + healing breeze. umm hello thats exactly the same thing, and its not as sustainable as mending but gives you more regen when you do have it up.

That's just it: Mending is still giving you -1 energy regen when you're not getting hurt, and when you are getting hurt it's less effective than Healing Breeze. With a 1 sec cast time, Breeze is easy to get off in a fight and is clearly the better choice.

I think Mending is pretty much a wasted skill slot in most PvP builds. However, I still think it's a mistake to ridicule or refuse to cooperate with people who use it. They don't need some jerk making fun of them, since losing repeatedly is bad enough. Just give them advice and hope they take it. The internet has an overabundance of immature, self-righteous assholes already; don't become one of them.

cookiehoarder · Sep 09, 2005, 11:24 PM // 23:24

Don't rant to us about this, just kill them.

Zeru · Sep 09, 2005, 11:32 PM // 23:32

Yes mending is garbage it's really not that hard to see. It's fairly energy efficient but the overall effect is so miniscule that it's simple not worth the sacrifice, for a monk or war monk (especially having to put points into healing prayers). In pvp, unless the mending user is just screwing around it's pretty much guaranteed that their knowledge about effective builds is limited at best. Sayings like "It's good if used well" are just plain stupid and should not be uttered. Making fun of them or not healing/helping them is wrong: do them a favor and tell them why. Hopefully they'll learn and that'll be one less complete scrub.

As for warriors in random arena, frankly I think it's a waste of time to play one. You'll get hexed, blinded, and messed with a lot, and the odds of finding a halfway decent monk who can keep you at high attacking efficiency is extremly low. When I bother to play random arena for non testing purposes, I only play a monk because it's the only class that can have complete dimwits for the rest of the team and still do decently if you perform well.

On energy for warriors, really only axe builds and battle rage setups are going to leave you pretty high on energy. Frenzy (bad in random arena, too good to pass up everywhere else) and sprint take a fairly big toll alone. If you are self buffing yourself, especially with a JI+SoH combo, you will need a zealous mod. Add in the 1-2 energy based attacks (crushing blow, ires blow, etc), and you'll be finding heavy use of a zealous mod.

UberRusty · Sep 10, 2005, 12:34 AM // 00:34

Quote:

Double Succor FTW.

That is what I usually do if I ever run a W/Mo.

Quote:

cast mending on a weaker target? ummmm wtf? is it just me or is that like grade a dumb? a soft target will take *much* more damage than a tank, and will fall like a rock if not defended in some way. mending will do all of nothing to a soft target.

This is from a guy who made a build with stacking preparations. Like you said, a soft target will take much more damage than a tank. First of all, why the hell would you tank? Nobody attacks Warriors. Second of all, nobody attacks Warriors. Why would you, put Mending on yourself, as opposed to a target that will be attacked? You're right, it will do all of nothing. But "datz liek grade a dumb lolololol" if you put it on yourself.

Quote:

warriors have nothing to do with their energy? ...? in TA or CA frenzy is a big no no, you wont last 10 seconds which leaves you with TF, which is 10 energy. sprint, is 5 energy. if you plan on using seriously any 5 energy warrior attack thats spammable you will run out of energy really fast. zealous wont do you anything if you get blinded/blocked. alot of stances need energy. i mean cmon have you guys ever played a warrior?

Er no... what is a Warrior? Is it like the guys with the melee weapons and shit? I don't know, I just spew out incorrect information without testing the build.. er... wtf is a build. OMG SUMBUDY HLP ME!!1111

Frenzy on a Warrior is fine. Better yet, run TF. Tiger's Fury is basically energy gained with Zealous Hilt. Read the TF vs. Frenzy thread, make up your mind. You play too much Comp Arena. Do you realise no one attacks Warriors?

Quote:

havent you ever come across that last tank in some fights, this sword guy who just sits there attacking and doing like no damage but being an asshole with healing/stances? i mean they use mending, and if you cant debuff dont expect to kill him in 10 seconds.

No, because when I play TA, things die in 5 seconds.

Jhyphi · Sep 10, 2005, 12:58 AM // 00:58

First off, call me a noob or whatever, but I have played tombs, rank 2 now using only PUG, (not as a W/Mo, but as a mes).

Yes, mending is quite useless there. However, mending is quite useful in arena. I usually cast it on myself and either a monk, mes, ele, or whoever seems to be top target. The difference in arena is there's far less damage dealt per second on a target.

Several good points about mending. 1) You don't have to be within a certain range of your squishy teammate. 2) He can be running away with someone chasing w/o needing to stop to cast something while having 6 health a second gain (not big, but every bit helps). 3) Along the same lines, you don't have to stop attacking to cast it.

Yea, I know, my energy regen goes to 0. That's what F2 zealous sword is for. Get close up switch to F2, runing in between targets, switch F1. Call me noob or whatever but I have 80% or so win percentage in arena(yes competition sucks, but given you are also as likely paired with crap players also, I must be doing something right to help improve my team from 50% win percentage.)

For the record, I'm using the default paladin build with rez sig in instead of resurrect. OMG, NOOB!!!!

Whatever, it's FUN, I have a good win percentage.

Trick is to be adaptable, if they don't target me, I take mending off myself, cast the 2nd one on whoever is targetted, so that's 2 squishy's on my team being saved a bit with mending. Also cast healing hands on targetted and that has saved many of my teammates long enough to turn the tide.

All of which gives me enough time to kill off 1-2(IN THAT TIME) of their guys wih my 16 attritbute swordsmanship +15%>50.

Mending isn't for my personal tanking, sitting there keeping me alive when teammates are all dead. It helps free up your monk or sometimes lack of a monk in arena.

In terms of attribute points, it's quite "worth it" in that there's not really another use for them.
16 swordsmanship, 10-11 strength, 9-10 healing (forgot exact number and cutoffs) what else would I put it in?
If I chose another secondary, then I would put 9-10 in that attribute instead, but right now, my secondary is monk.

cookiehoarder · Sep 10, 2005, 11:15 AM // 11:15

I like to run W/Mo and replace TF with Frenzy BECAUSE TF SUCKKKKKKKKKKKS. (Has changed his mind after experimenting) Anyway, It's a bit funny how people react (You're newb w/mo!!! rofl!!11) That kind of stuff.

Yukito Kunisaki · Sep 10, 2005, 01:34 PM // 13:34

ah, the mending vs. etc. challenge...

I can understand why nobody from iQ came in here lol...

entropy · Sep 10, 2005, 03:25 PM // 15:25

lol this is been argued b4 mending is not good period and you know what answer i got from a W/Mo paladin build when i asked him to cast it on the ele welll it was "I'm tanking" AGH!!! no wars don't tank in pvp AGH im gonna go mad trying to make them understand.

smurfhunter · Sep 10, 2005, 07:48 PM // 19:48

actually just purely FYI people do target warriors in comp arenas. alot. if you go as a warrior with no self heal you dont last long at all.

and its not a mending vs. ____ argument, its the jerks who feel this need to assert their intelligence by making fun of people who use mending vs. just about everyone who doesnt.

sheesh. and UberRusty... if you were trying to prove you never played in TA or CA... well you proved it. your post is so full of incorrect and meaningless information im not even going to bother answering to it...

Yukito Kunisaki · Sep 10, 2005, 07:49 PM // 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by entropy

lol this is been argued b4 mending is not good period and you know what answer i got from a W/Mo paladin build when i asked him to cast it on the ele welll it was "I'm tanking" AGH!!! no wars don't tank in pvp AGH im gonna go mad trying to make them understand.

That's why you don't...

Another thing, war on war combat can be quite funny when you realize how stupid they are...

When I see a warrior with mending, I'll sometimes [though just for laughs] kill him just after one of his soft teammates dies, [usually an ele or mesmer]...

One war was using Shield of Judgement with Bonetti's Defense and Gladiator's Defense and Mending on top, I was kinda confused as to why he did this, so I clobbered him with Rend, then 2 swift chops later, he went splat... Why do w/mo's do this?

Killing a Warrior/mo with mending on him [in the middle of a fight instead of the end] and then taunting him afterward might make them wake up... then again, idiots will be idiots...

entropy · Sep 10, 2005, 08:42 PM // 20:42

umm gladiators and shield are both elite... they do get targeted the good ones neway. If i see a Me/N lol i know its gonna be a fragility build and let the other paladin run in first

. Yes warriors get targeted but cmon its still mending. Cast healing breeze. it won't get interupted unless the person is just lucky or they are good. If your gonna use it use it on a squishy

. The paladin builds kill crap. A good monk Can ignore 1 maybe 2 if its protection or 3... I've played CA a lot more than anything else and i can tell you for a fact that warriors are definetley not the first targeted unless the person is running a total anti warrior build in which case they will such as fragility. If the warrior is good and starts getting kills then people will target him. People do notice if a warrior goes up and just slaughters the monk(at least i hope so...)

Blow Up Doll · Sep 10, 2005, 11:19 PM // 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatalieD

I don't mind Wamos using Mending. What bothers me is that 95% of them will cast it on themselves instead of on vulnerable teammates who could really use it. And if I ask them why, they either ignore me or say I should've taken mending myself if I want it.

personally when i use a w/mo with mending i would only use it on myself but i would keep something like healing breeze to use on team mates...

Man With No Name · Sep 11, 2005, 12:28 AM // 00:28

There's no shortage of W/Mo's in Arena that's for sure ( or Random Arena I should say... )

They're damage is minimal tbh since they don't bring Frenzy

They also don't tend to bring counters like Wild Blow, Mend Ailment or even a simple Hamstring / Sprint

They can't rend enchantments like a W/N and most don't take the Hammer/Smite route

Any decent caster should pack at least a few counter-measures against a Warrior or Ranger. Try using:

- Earth Magic for Wards, Armor Buffs
- Water Magic for Mist Form
- x/W for Stances
- x/R for Dirt Throw and Traps

Or my favourite

- x/Mes for Sig of Midnight -- blinding those W/Mo's every 15 seconds for 15 seconds ( hell, bring Plague Touch and blind two of em :P )

Sadly most of the casters I see are mostly useless focusing on fast damage rather than the long game -- take my advice -- drop that extra Attack skill and bring a Ward against Melee, back it up with something like Empathy -- you've just made my life 10x harder than an extra attack skill ever could -- if they don't stop attacking ( and they won't :P ) you've landed a kill

I hate to single out classes but Necro's are even worse -- combined with a mesmer you've got the perfect anti-warrior toolkit. What do most Necro's bring..?? Life Transfer... oO

Until the actual playing level of the opposition rises we'll forever see these useless W/Mo's in Arena -- but it's not their fault your letting them get away with it !!

EDIT: I think I might take some of my own advice and dish out some W/Mo hate :P